What’s wrong with this picture?
This is a photo taken at a Children’s U.S. Citizenship Ceremony in Mount Vernon yesterday. Fifty-eight children from 26 different countries all recited the “children’s oath of allegiance” after reciting the Pledge of Allegiance.1
I might be missing something, but why the FUCK are these kids swearing allegiance to God in order to obtain their U.S. citizenship?
According to the CNS article, “The ceremony was marked by references to the wisdom of the Founding Fathers, the freedoms guaranteed citizens by the Constitution, and acknowledgment of God’s role in the nation’s traditions.”2
The countries represented at the ceremony included Iran, China, Bolivia, Cambodia, Canada, Columbia, Cuba, Egypt, El Salvador, Ethiopia, Ghana, Guatemala, India, Kenya, Korea, Lebanon, Mexico, Morocco, Nigeria, Pakistan, Peru, Philippines, Sierra Leone, Turkey, United Arab Emirates and Vietnam.
Good thing these kids all come from God-fearing Christian countries, eh? Wouldn’t want them to be sneaking in any cultural or religious diversity, let alone, God forbid, non-religion.
This is child abuse.
- Mount Vernon Press Room; and see Washington Post article [<]
- CNS News. Correction: I mistakenly cited this as “CBS” news in the article. It has been corrected. More sources include ABC 7 News, Washington Post [<]
Tags: Citizenship, Constitution, First Amendment, god, Mt. Vernon, Religion
I agree that they should not have to swear to god to obtain citizenship…but we might be taking it a little far by saying it’s child abuse.
It’s imposing religion unconstitutionally upon children, feeding them false and misleading information about the history of the nation, and not giving them alternative acceptable options — I mean, just look at the cards they’re using. It’s abuse of the system, abuse of the Constitution, abuse of religious freedom, and it’s being done to children, so it’s child abuse.
Damn son….. You’re spitting logical fallacies faster than I can think of witty things to counter them with!
Okay, we can take it slow.
1. Is it constitutional to require children (or anyone for that matter) to swear to God in order to obtain U.S. citizenship?
2. Is it historically correct that the founding fathers invoked God in the creation of the nation?
3. Do the children have acceptable alternative options to swearing to God? (if so, what are they, and why aren’t they displayed on the placard?)
4. Is it proper use of the naturalization system to invoke God and require an oath to God?
5. Is freedom of/from religion being imposed upon?
1. So help me god is not swearing to god, it is requesting the assistance of a deity, if one is applicable. Swearing on a bible or to god specifically would be different.
2. They used god in a universal or metaphorical sense from time to time, yes.
3. The alternative is that you’re retarded (see next two points)
4. Who’s invoking god? Who’s requiring an oath to god? I don’t see anyone. Learn what it means to swear on something ferchistsake.
5. No. You’re just reading between the lines to an absurd extent.
1. My context indicates that it’s the equivalent of “I swear to God that I speak the truth.” It’s the use of that deity, or the oath-taker’s combination of the belief in that deity plus the oath-taker’s belief that the deity is willing and able to punish the oath-taker for lying or breaking the oath that makes it meaningful.
Here’s a question for you: If a non-believer took the above oath, would it be binding?
If a non-believer took the above oath, but refused to add the “So help me God” part, would it be binding?
2. I didn’t ask about from time to time. I asked about the “creation of the nation.” What document comprises the agreement by the colonies to create the United States, and does it invoke God?
3. Ad hominem, yay!
He’s devolved into inanity, insanity and insults. That means you win.
What really hit me funny was:
“4. Who’s invoking god? Who’s requiring an oath to god? I don’t see anyone. Learn what it means to swear on something ferchistsake.”
Because, well, I can see someone requiring an oath to god in the photo above–she’s holding a large sign that spells it out pretty clearly. But arguing with someone like that can never actually convince them. See fractal wrongness:
http://www.cs.washington.edu/homes/klee/misc/lexicon.html#fractal_wrongness
This guy is obviously fucking retarded. Not only are they clearly not “swearing an allegiance to God”, but there is nothing Christian at all about saying God. Go tell a Jew or a Muslim or any other
You, sir, are an idiot.
And just to go ahead and cut off your cries of “Ad hominem!”, you should look up what it actually means. It does not just mean a personal attack.
The whole pledge thing, especially for children, is seriously messed-up
“So help me god” is a term that has been used by athiests for centuries. Do you get up tight when a kid says “oh my god”? No, you don’t. Chill the hell out.
Quite a difference between using the term as an expression of emotion and an official government citizenship rite.
But it’s an expression of emotion there too.
It could be an expression of emotion for the ceremony, but it’s also a requirement. It’s equivalent to the federal government requiring you to swear an oath to God in order to cash a social security check. Some would sign it without a problem. Some would be emotional about it. Some would be deeply offended. That’s all irrelevant. What’s relevant is that it’s the government picking a religious point of view and putting an implied rubber stamp of acceptance on it. That has the effect of excluding other religious belief as well as lack of religious belief, and that’s unconstitutional.
No it’s not. It is being used in an official manner. That’s not an emotional outburst. The moment it’s addition to the pledge was made made the oath a religious matter. And that is unconstitutional. Whether the person saying it believes in the line or not doesn’t matter. They are FORCING those children to embrace a deity. And in this case, the Christian one.
["The ceremony was marked by references to the wisdom of the Founding Fathers, the freedoms guaranteed citizens by the Constitution, and acknowledgment of God’s role in the nation’s traditions."]
That right there leaves little doubt as to implication behind it’s addition.
a buddhist could not take that oath and be speaking the truth. nor could a shamanist, nor many ancestor worshipers, nor some forms of satanism. they are all religions. they all would be excluded. It’s not just atheists here your fucking with.
It’s unconstitutional. when the government pushes your rights out _even_ if you are ok with it, thats a road you should be afraid to tread.
Since when is the U.S. government “expressing emotion” when it gives you citizenship? I think you’re misunderstanding what is going on here Kaye. The Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, and separation of church and state. A kid can walk around on the street saying “oh my God” all they want, I don’t care. This has nothing to do with that though. This is the U.S. government forcing children to pledge to the Christian God, no matter whether these kids are atheists, agnostics, Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, or any other number of religions that do not believe in the Christian God. That’s a blatant disregard for the separation of church and state and a violation of the child’s right to freedom of religion.
Out of interest why is it so wrong for people to believe in religion? Everyone has there own opnions, why bash them?
I (and most of my atheist friends) have no problem with people believing in fairy tales. If it makes that person happy, so be it. But that’s not what this issue is about. See this country was founded on the principles of freedom. One of those is the freedom of religious choice. When people subtly add lines like “So help me god” or “In god we trust” into government documents, pledges, and so forth, goes against this concept. When we point out stories like this and voice our opposition to what is being done, we aren’t trying to keep people from trying to believe in their imaginary friend. In fact, we are rallying to ensure EVERYONE continues to have the right to keep their faith (Or to have none at all.) Everyone, no matter their religious affiliation, should be angered to see this.
No one said it’s wrong for people to believe in religion.
It’s funny that you say that everyone has their own opinions, but yet you implicitly advocate what this post represents as religious indoctrination for children who want to become U.S. citizens. Are they not entitled to not believe in the Christian god, or is everyone entitled to their opinion, but they have to express outwardly that they share the Christian opinion, regardless?
What we’re saying is that the U.S. Constitution prohibits the establishment of religion and prohibits restrictions upon the free exercise of religion. By establishing an oath incorporating a specific deity, “God,” the government violates the constitutional prohibitions that keep the government out of our opinions and beliefs and our religious beliefs out of the government.
No one is saying it’s wrong to believe in religion Raiko. They are saying it is wrong for a government that claims to practice separation of church and state to require swearing an oath to God, as the Bill of Rights guarantees freedom of religion. There are plenty of religions out there that do not believe in the single Judeo-Christian God. So it’s not just the rights of atheists that are being violated, it’s the rights of Buddhists, Hindus, and many others as well. They still believe in religion, just not the same one you do, so why should they have to swear an oath to your God instead of theirs? It’s a violation of the Constitution to require this for citizenship.
This is not only a disgrace but also unconstitutional
there are far worse things than making an immigrant swear on the foundation of the country we live in. i, myself, am not a religious nut. i know we didnt just appear here though and being able to even convey this message tells of at least a somewhat intelligent design. but what i do know is that when religion was still a part of American society we didnt have the problems that exist now. even if religion is just a nice story to live by at least it gave people something to live for. now we just live to get to tomorrow and the day after and then die. its OK to be scared of something you dont understand but to scoff it off as child abuse just makes you generally incredulous. im a 22 year old with a GED and even I can see that.
So… people can’t live for the truth? They have to be told to believe in fairy tales? Tell you what, you can believe whatever you want, but just don’t push it on others, especially kids. I think that, then, we could all get along just a bit better. Now, isn’t that something worth living for?
no one told them they had to be christian to live here were not puritan, they said the fucking pledge just as we all did every morning of school. its on our money. no one is telling them what to believe but they are swearing in the be a part of a country that was founded on those values. even a rapist swears on the bible in court.
I guess that’s an indication of the GED education you were bragging about. Perhaps you can figure out when “it” got put on our money. And then perhaps reassess whether the country was “founded on those values.” Oh, and, have you had the chance to read the document that founded this country lately? I’ll give you a few guesses which document that might be. I don’t want to be unfair.
listen you pompous asshole i realize that the constitution give freedom of religion but it also says ‘IN GOD WE TRUST” which im sure in your stuck up fancy panys mind means, god, big man in sky making rainbows and lollipops, because your too god damned stupid to realize your own mortality. but god exists in more than one form. more than the christian god. these kids werent atheist. they believed in A god and no one was making them swear to the “christian” god. just A god. Dont be so fucking fascist.
PS Did they give you a free tie with that ego at yuppie school?
PSS whats the literal translation for Allah by the way? i Think its god. oh wait…it is. douche bag.
You’re a riot. Okay, let’s handle this very slowly and gently for you.
1. Go HERE. It’s a transcript of the original Constitution of the United States of America, the founding document of this nation.
2. Click CTRL-F (that’s “Find”) and type in “God.”
3. How many instances do you find?
Also, for a nice annotated and current version, go to Cornell’s LII: Constitution. You’ll notice something rather lacking there, as well. Where could they have hidden it? It’s a mystery!
Holy moly, dude, you’re giving all the truly fine people with GEDs a bad name here….if you are going to be a flag waving ‘merican, perhaps you should take the time to learn what the people who founded the country REALLY said. Its not that hard, they wrote it down. All you have to do is read it.
While you’re at it, look up fascist. Keep up the good fight, Procrustes.
Thanks, Publius. And love your name. You’re not related to Claudius Pulcher, are you?
thanks for your very informative posts procrustes, that should be more than enough to shut ItsAlmostToLate up
GED my ass, i am not american but i knew abt the whole “in god we trust” addition, u should be ashamed of yourself